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bbpolitical
Forum Admin
265 Posts |
 Posted - 04/05/2006 : 9:31:10 PM
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I have taken issue with Augustine's op-ed's before, but this week's was out and out ridiculous. I understand people on her (it is a woman right?) side of the immigration debate might be annoyed about the direction the government is heading. However, this article made a lot out of cases of immigrants who are also criminals and completely ignored the balance of cases where immigrants are the same type of people that our ancestors were. As a result, the article appeared uninformed at best and inflammatory at worst.
One point made was that workers from other countries take below minimum wage jobs that Americans wouldn't want because the pay is too low. In actual fact, many illegal immigrants are working at or above minimum wage and paying taxes, albeit with phony tax documents. These jobs, agricultural labor in particular, actually are generally offered to immigrants who have a stronger work ethic than Americans in the eyes of many employers. Americans don't take jobs seriously that only pay minimum wage and illegal immigrants are grateful for them.
The major thrust of Mr. Bush's message, along with most of Washington and academia, is that unskilled Americans aren't DOING the jobs for whatever reason and choosing to stay unemployed instead, presumably sitting on unemployment and hoping for a pie-in-the sky job instead of actually working. If we send the immigrants away and increase the wages a dollar or two, people still wouldn't be flooding into these jobs or taking them seriously. The "going rate" Americans would demand would be over $10 per hour, which is more than entry level school teachers get in most parts of the country. Those wages would destroy our economy the same way it has destroyed the big automakers.
Another point was that America was importing Mexico's poverty. Actually, American agricultural subsidies with the aid of foreign allies and trade agreements backed by military deals have made agriculture in Mexico nearly worthless as the profit margins are essentially zero when it comes to exporting them to any wealthy nation. Therefore the USA is largely reponsible for Mexican poverty. We haven't been a very good neighbor, frankly. So, agricultural workers come here, driven by simple economic forces that started right here. If Augustine can't figure out that the USA has something to do with the economy of the Mexico, than I can't, for the life of me, figure out why.
I am an average resident of Everett who would like to see more communication about anything and everything to do with Everett
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lizbeth
Senior Member
184 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2006 : 11:40:13 PM
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Augustine is a man, Michael. And his editorial pieces have always been incendiary . . . it's his style, as I'm sure you've discovered if you read his material on a regular basis.
Michael, you're a very strong supporter of the rights of immigrant, obviously, illegal or otherwise; you say our ancestors all came from somewhere else, and indeed they did, but they did so legally, albeit it because there were no regulations on immigration at that time. Three of my four grandparents came here from Europe, through Ellis Island, like so many others, and they faced discrimination, like so many others. But this is a different country than it was 100 years ago . . . and certainly a more dangerous one due to "globalization." Personally, I want to welcome anyone who wants to come here and work hard for the "American" dream; I have a very hard time with people who want to come here and disrespect our communities and spit on our traditions. I get frustrated when I see illegal immigrants marching in protest waving not the American flag, but the Mexican flag. I'm of Irish American descent, and I've proudly displayed the Irish flag, but you can bet your ass I've proudly displayed the American flag above all else, because my grandmothers came here under the direst of circumstances to provide better lives for their families, as well as to help their families still back in Ireland, and I have respect for the country that provided them with that opportunity -- despite the hardships they endured when they got here, including signs that said "No Irish Need Apply" -- and that gave me the land of my own birth. I don't always agree with everything my government does, but I'm always grateful to live in a country where I can say out loud that I don't agree with everything my government does.
The immigration process in our country is deeply flawed; rounding everyone up and shipping them back where they came from isn't the answer, but neither is giving carte blanche to people who violate the law. |
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bbpolitical
Forum Admin
265 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 11:24:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizbeth
Augustine is a man, Michael. And his editorial pieces have always been incendiary . . . it's his style, as I'm sure you've discovered if you read his material on a regular basis.
Michael, you're a very strong supporter of the rights of immigrant, obviously, illegal or otherwise; you say our ancestors all came from somewhere else, and indeed they did, but they did so legally, albeit it because there were no regulations on immigration at that time. Three of my four grandparents came here from Europe, through Ellis Island, like so many others, and they faced discrimination, like so many others. But this is a different country than it was 100 years ago . . . and certainly a more dangerous one due to "globalization." Personally, I want to welcome anyone who wants to come here and work hard for the "American" dream; I have a very hard time with people who want to come here and disrespect our communities and spit on our traditions. I get frustrated when I see illegal immigrants marching in protest waving not the American flag, but the Mexican flag. I'm of Irish American descent, and I've proudly displayed the Irish flag, but you can bet your ass I've proudly displayed the American flag above all else, because my grandmothers came here under the direst of circumstances to provide better lives for their families, as well as to help their families still back in Ireland, and I have respect for the country that provided them with that opportunity -- despite the hardships they endured when they got here, including signs that said "No Irish Need Apply" -- and that gave me the land of my own birth. I don't always agree with everything my government does, but I'm always grateful to live in a country where I can say out loud that I don't agree with everything my government does.
The immigration process in our country is deeply flawed; rounding everyone up and shipping them back where they came from isn't the answer, but neither is giving carte blanche to people who violate the law.
Thanks for the clarification. I honestly didn't know since Augustine is a female name in many cultures. I guess it is masculine in Italy.
I totally agree with you on all counts. Obviously. Many Mexicans who come here still identify with their home country and many don't see themselves as being invested into the United States. That is a problem.
Amnesty is not going to fix the problems but our current national government is looking to create a voting block by yielding to changing demographics brought on by Mexican immigration. This is why I am cynical when it comes to immigration reform because it always seems to favor a particular group. I may be too idealstic, but I am still waiting for someone to suggest revamping the legal entrance process across the board to make it possible for illegals to return to their countries and reapply. As it stands, people can't afford to go back because they would never be let in legally through any of the channels currently available.
Maybe if the Immigration officials were less hostile towards people looking to make an honest living or get an education here, illegal immigration would be less of a problem. It is a complicated mess to solve, that's for sure.
I am an average resident of Everett who would like to see more communication about anything and everything to do with Everett |
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katmac
Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 11:36:14 PM
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| Augustine is funny - he knows he is writing for a completely biased paper, and comments on how frustrating it is that they have no integrity, yet he feeds the same mentality by being equally off center. That paper is a joke. |
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Court4Fred
Advanced Member
1201 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2006 : 10:04:19 AM
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Michael, what makes you think immigration officials are hostile and part of the problem? I've done this kind of work in the past, and while I have found most of them to be bureaucratic - I don't get "hostile" from them. Generally, if people are applying for H1B or other work visas - they're going to get them with a company sponsoring them and vouching for them.
I have a huge issue with many of the protesters demanding "rights" they don't have while flying their national flag, hoisting it up on school flag poles and the like. Over the years, many immigrant communities have sprung up and hosted their own national groups - but they never forgot that they were also American. The country's strength is built on the melting pot - not the Balkanization of nationalities.
Augustine is just being Augustine. He's to the right of Attila the Hun. I don't even read his stuff any more. He's our very own Ann Coulter, although not as well read and all too willing to pollute the lives of others (with his sophomoric vitriol laced name-calling) in order to maximize political gain. He would gain more readers if he didn't resort to his Coulterish spew of liberals this and liberals that as if they were responsible for every deadly plague in the universe.
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bbpolitical
Forum Admin
265 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2006 : 6:24:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Court4Fred
Michael, what makes you think immigration officials are hostile and part of the problem? I've done this kind of work in the past, and while I have found most of them to be bureaucratic - I don't get "hostile" from them. Generally, if people are applying for H1B or other work visas - they're going to get them with a company sponsoring them and vouching for them.
The immigration officials I am talking about are the ones outside of our borders. In US consulates overseas, there are some very cruel and corrupt officials. As a matter of fact, most of the immigrants I know (all of them are legal) never wanted to come here solely for the fact that they were treated like something less than human by the people in the consulate when they had just wanted to visit or go to school here.
The major issues that I have heard about are actually with the student and travel visas (F1, J1, N1). The US Citizenship process is a whole different story. It is a much more welcoming experience.
I didn't mean to include all officials in our immigration system, just those working at certain consulates in other countries.
Michael
I am an average resident of Everett who would like to see more communication about anything and everything to do with Everett |
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H1ghCh4r1ty
Advanced Member
967 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2006 : 10:52:05 PM
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Ann Coulter is my favorite centerfold liberal.
I just don't agree her views....
Emile Schoeffhausen |
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Augustine Parziale
