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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 9:57:59 PM
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I don't believe he said what other positions Mr Carlisle will be doing.
Again, another headache after a Common Council meeting.
Tetris, I agree with you, I like Lorri Bruno, but her meetings just don't flow. |
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Tails
Administrator
2682 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2008 : 11:11:18 PM
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I thought the same thing about Lori Bruno. I said she's in over her head and of course, certain ones on the council did not help. I'm disappointed about item number 30. I felt not enough questions were asked.....why eight....why now? There is a civil service exam coming up next month. Eight positions did not just go away and as of today, we are at the quota. Two people applied for retirement and I believe the chief said 6 months from now they will retire.....and two are coming of retirement age. That doesn't mean their leaving and the numbers don't add up. People on the reserve list receive benefits right away. Who's paying for this? Questions like this were not asked and in opinion, they cared more about a dog park than possibly eight politically motivated positions.
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cozulady
Senior Member
165 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 09:12:50 AM
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| I believe that the reserve list had to be referred back to sponsor before any discussion could take place. |
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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 09:23:16 AM
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| I thought Leo McKinnon was asking questions of Chief Butler last night. I think what Tails is getting at, is Tails feels that the correct questions were not asked of the chief. |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 09:28:46 AM
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Cozulady,
If we are talking about the same reserve list item (#21), it was actually granted further time as was requested in the piece. The meeting report is already posted on the city web site as further evidence. I can understand your confusion about the item because of the way that the agenda was being handled at that point in the meeting. I don't understand why the CC believes that moving all around the agenda so quickly is productive; the people at home, myself included, just get lost. I'm glad that this item hasn't died; it deserves more discussion in front of the full board if committee meetings aren't going to be televised. |
Edited by - tetris on 04/08/2008 09:30:04 AM |
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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 09:43:31 AM
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| I think Tails was talking about item #30. Tetris, you are so right, they need to stay in order, it is getting way to confusing to follow and I have the agenda sitting in front of me. |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 10:17:22 AM
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Massdee,
Tails was talking about item #30. The whole issue of the reserve list is something that the CC has been trying to bring to the table; there's been an item on the agenda about it at almost every meeting since the beginning of the year. In fact, this week, there were no fewer than three different items about it on the agenda; item #17, which proposed limiting the size of the list was referred back to sponsor (MGL defines how many names can be on the list depending on the size of the regular fire department), item #21, which survived and item #30. Item #30 was a little strange to me; an agenda item that was seemingly based on a rumor. It would have more appropriate if the mayor was coming before the board looking for an additional appropriation for the fire department. Once someone shoots down the rumor, there is no way that your argument can gain any traction, much as we saw last night. Item #21 seems the best way to get a meaningful discussion going on the item. |
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Tails
Administrator
2682 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 11:24:42 AM
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Another thing I don’t understand is items 3-4-5-6-8-21 and 30 were all relevant to the same matter. Why couldn’t those all (or just item 21 and 30 anyway) get combined into one item or take them all together instead of jumping around. The meetings are very disorganized and confusing. Some people think their agenda is over and stop watching when actually it’s not. There is no order with these meetings and I understand Lori Bruno is the president but she’s one person and there needs to be more control. Sometimes I feel it's like watching an elementary classroom.
As for street sweeping, I went to the post office this morning and the sweepers were on Norwood St. Cars were not towed, no tickets and the sweepers went around the cars. I was surprised to see that after they were so gung-ho last week and I understand you can’t be everywhere at once but are we backing off a little already? If so, people get complacent and if they get towed next week, their argument will be the city is not consistent and that is a legitimate argument.
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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 11:40:21 AM
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| Street sweeping was on my street yesterday, they ticketed and towed on my street. |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 12:18:52 PM
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Tails,
As Councilor Napolitano pointed out last night, just because two items are about the same subject matter (i.e., the 7 acre park), they can be about very different aspects of the matter (accepting the park vs. a dog park) and can actual slow down the discussion.
As I see it, there were two different sets of items about the fire department on the agenda last night. One set concerned the organization of the admininstration of the fire department (items 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8) and the other set concerned the use of the reserve list as a hiring tool (items 17, 21 and 30). One may play into the other but I believe that they are logically separate. If I were running the city council (go ahead, take your shots), I would have attempted to have them taken as two groups, the first set I described (which they partially did) followed by the second set. The chief should have willing to sit thru all of them. I still think that item #30 was flawed and we probably would not have gotten much further along in the discussion of the issue at this time, even if these other items were included, because of it. |
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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 09:00:51 AM
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Tetris,
What is your take on what is going on with the Fire Department? I find it all very confusing. Is some of it, that they are doing a little house work for inefficiency purposes? The "reserve list" I am very confused on. Can you explain that in layman's terms?
Thanks |
Edited by - massdee on 04/09/2008 09:02:02 AM |
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cozulady
Senior Member
165 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 09:56:25 AM
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| I believe this is how the reserve list works and why the dept. likes to have one. People are placed on the list from Civil Service test lists. Currently there is one court ordered person (I believe he/she may have been laid off from another dept which gives them priority) who is first on the list. Once they go on the list, they are eligible to go for training making them ready to work as soon as a position opens up. If not on the reserve list, they get appointed, go on the payroll, then go off for their training. This saves the city money by not having to pay salaries while they are off to school. True, veterans that pass the next Civil Service test will not be on thie list, but when this list is worked down, they can be added. Like most things that happen there are two sides to the issue--pros and cons. Unfortunately, the systems is not set up to make everyone happy. |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 10:05:00 AM
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Massdee,
It's my take that both the Board of Alderman and the Common Council believe that "something" is going on at the Fire Department. The changes to eliminate the Board of Fire Commissioners barely made it thru the enrollment vote in the BOA and even that looked shaky (Matewsky = piece of work); no guarantees that they'll make it thru the BOA ordianment vote. The Common Council, especially the members who are military veterans, appear to have some issues with, among other things, the use of the reserve list. I've done some research on the reserve list in the past. As I recall, I didn't find all the answers that I was looking for in MGL; in fact, I think I learned a couple of new things from the chief on Monday night. I'll have to dig all of that stuff up again. Even normally, that would probably take me a little while; however, since my computer is only up and limping at the moment (and thank God for that much), the best I can promise is that I'll get to it as soon as I can. |
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kimmy
Member
32 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 12:04:01 PM
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| the street sweeping is staying the same so what will they discuss in two months? the city looks good as do the parks. lets hope it stays that way. next winter will be interesting without a snow shoveling ordinance. that should be a committee to discuss. all the lazy heads have an excuse now not to shovel with no-one to enforce it. someones gonna get hurt with-out it. |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 9:18:08 PM
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| I finally got around to posting what I know and what I think about the use of the "reserve list". I put it in another thread because it fairly long and this thread will get fairly long on its own. BTW, I haven't mentioned it yet but I think that putting all of a year's worth of agendas and subsequent conversations about in them in two threads, one for the BOA and one for the CC, was a great idea. It makes it so much easier to find things and to follow issues as they develop. |
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COMMON COUNCIL 2008
