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Tails
Administrator
2682 Posts |
 Posted - 07/08/2008 : 10:31:00 AM
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It may not be legally wrong to collect two paychecks but it's morally wrong. What ever monies he receives from FEMA should be turned over to the City of Everett. That's the way it works with Jury Duty and helping other people in a time of need is not a cash windfall. I don't think many places of businesses would allow employees to take a month off paid (100% or not) and then double dip. He may not be receiving 100% of his pay but he's getting something from the city and he's not there.
As for the summer jobs, very unfortunately, I too was glad this did not pass. I think Jason Marcus should be more concerned about the cities finances right now rather than standing up saying how disappointed he is. They had no plan for the children. He should be more concerned about what happened to the 11 million that was left in free cash and is almost gone in 6 months and all these loans the city is taking out and no one from the administration knows how much the taxpayer is paying back in finance charges.
This administration was not prepared at all. They were asked simple questions. What were the children going to do? Who would supervise them and no one received a straight answer. The responce was "They will do something in city services"
In the past, there was always a plan for the children and one thing I will say is Jim Henderson handled that very well. If I had to vote on that, I would have had to vote no the way the entire situation was handled. |
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billydee
Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 10:40:23 AM
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Massdee,
My sources "close to the City's payroll office" told me that Carlisle did get paid for last week at least. I am waiting for my sources to confirm whether he will get paid this week. Rumor has it that "a City employee cannot use his/her vacation time to go work somewhere else." That should be a leave without pay, if not "job abandonment worthy of termination." Let's see if the geniuses who think that they are running City Hall figure out the cluster _ _ _ _ before the authorities are contacted about a phantom Budget/Procurement Officer (without certification), who is committing payroll fraud with the City while being paid by the federal government for 30 days. |
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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 1:24:34 PM
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| If that is the case, and it's against the law, then the proper authorities should be notified. |
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justme
Advanced Member
1428 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 2:06:02 PM
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You’re jumping the gun……………… I don’t know if you’re right or wrong but I do know it’s too soon to yell fraud. You have no idea if he’s being paid by anyone other than the city and if he is, he needs the opportunity to come back and provide the city with his earning information so they can make the appropriate adjustments.
I’m no fan of Carlisle and I sincerely regret voting for Carlo but let’s not lynch anyone just yet. When you have ALL the facts, if he’s done something illegal, than by all means call and write anybody and everybody and make sure he’s prosecuted. Until then, I suggest you just sit tight
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billydee
Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 2:10:28 PM
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Tails,
It is legally wrong to collect two paychecks when the paycheck from the City is not based on either a day's work or legitimate vacation time. How long has Carlisle been working? Answer: less than 5 months. I bet all who post here a dollar that Carlisle does not have sufficient vacation time to support taking 30 days off within 5 months of starting? That is where payroll fraud comes in.
Does anyone remember Skip Coppola (Auditor under Ragucci) who was given a vacation buyback check for vacation given to him by the late Tony Serino without Ragucci’s knowledge? It happened the same year that Ragucci lost the Mayor’s office. There is no way that Carlo is smart enough to have given Carlisle extra vacation time to cover this 30 day period. City employees only get 2 weeks vacation. Carlisle will be gone 30 days. Giving him extra vacation time, after the fact, will not cut it under these facts. Also, even if Carlo is smart enough to have given him extra vacation, vacation “accrues” from month to month. According to my sources, new City employees can only take 5 days vacation within the first six months. If they leave before those 5 days accrue, they owe some money back to the City before they leave. I am betting that when Carlisle is eventually terminated, he will owe the City money.
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nicholas
Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 4:36:44 PM
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I cannot believe that the Mayor is paying Carlisle anything after what I have been reading today. Something is wrong with this picture. A guy from out of town, leaves his Budget Dir and Purchasing duties for 30 days to go work for FEMA? What the heck is going on at City Hall now? Somebody better call the Authorities for the Stupidity of a Mayor who would put up with this crap after telling us about cost savings by merging Budget with Purchasing. Didn't the new Budget go into effect July 1? Did Carlisle leave for FEMA before the budget was even entered into the system, Billydee?
I got lots of questions and I hope that the Mayor will have good answers before this Scandal is over. I normally have nothing against out of towners. The Mayor's Chief of Staff is from out of town and I think she's cute and professional. But Carlisle is not cute and was very unprofessional leaving the City stranded like that. Let him go, Mr. Mayor, before he is your downfall. There is still hope for you, Mr. Mayor. |
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n/a
deleted
136 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2008 : 5:35:13 PM
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Does anyone know who stepped in as purchasing officer. It is not the right thing to do merging all these departments and doings so as quickly as they did.
Nicholas something is very wrong with this picture and not just about FEMA. |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 2:53:46 PM
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REGULAR MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN, MONDAY, AUGUST 25, 2008, 7:00 PM, PETER J. MCCARREN MEMORIAL CHAMBERS, EVERETT, MA
COMMUNICATIONS FROM HIS HONOR THE MAYOR
1.
A0258-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
Subject to confirmation by the Honorable Board of Aldermen, I hereby appoint Mr. George Edwards to serve as a member of the Everett Disability Commission for a period of three (3) years expiring in February 2011.
2.
A0256-08 Ordinance/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
That Chapter 7, Section 7-164 of the Revised Ordinances of the City of Everett, Massachusetts, relative to salaries of administrative officers of the City, is hereby amended by striking "Board of Assessors, 21,300.00 21,300.00, and inserting in place thereof the following: "Board of Assessors Chairman 10,000.00 21,300.00". All ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict with the foregoing are hereby repealed.
3.
A0257-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
Subject to approval by the Honorable Board of Alderman, I hereby re-appoint Officer Joseph Gaff as a Sworn Weigher for the Everett Police Department Truck Inspection Unit for a period of one (1) year, ending August 15, 2009.
4.
A0259-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
Subject to confirmation by the Honorable Board of Aldermen, I hereby appoint Mr. Brian McCarthy to serve as a member of the Everett Licensing Board, term ending in June 2013.
5.
A0260-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
Subject to confirmation by the Honorable Board of Aldermen, I hereby appoint Mr. Roland Hughes, Esquire, to serve as a member of the Everett Licensing Board, term ending in June 2009.
6.
A0261-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen
Subject to confirmation by the Honorable Board of Aldermen, and in accordance with Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 138, Section 4 and 5, and pursuant to the Everett City Charter, Sections 29 and 35, I hereby appoint Mr. Philip Antonelli to serve as a member of the Everett Licensing Board for a term ending June 2014.
7.
A0262-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
Subject to confirmation by the Honorable Board of Aldermen, and in accordance with Chapter 4, Article I, Section 14-2 of the Revised Ordinances of the City of Everett, I hereby reappoint Mr. Michael Vetrano as a Sergeant with the Everett Police Department.
PAPERS FROM THE COMMON COUNCIL
8.
C0182-08 Order/s/Councilor Lorrie Bruno, as President
To accept donations totaling $13,900.00 to be deposited into the FY2009 City Beautification Program Account. (Passed sent up for concurrence)
9.
C0183-08 Order/s/Councilor Lorrie Bruno, as President
That the sum up to, but not exceeding $15,000.00 be appropriated from the FY 2009 Stabilization Trust Fund Account to be applied to the School Department Bleacher Rental Account. (Passed sent up for concurrence)
10.
C0184-08 Order/s/Councilor Lorrie Bruno, as President
The City of Everett established a committee to prepare a Hazard Mitigation Plan, which contains recommendations for several potential projects to mitigate impacts from natural hazards. Such plan was considered at the public meeting of the Common Council on August 18, 2008 and the public meeting of the Board of Aldermen on August 25, 2008. Accordingly, it is hereby ordered the Mayor, Common Council, and the Board of Aldermen adopt the Hazard Mitigation Plan, in accordance with Section 27 of the Charter of the City of Everett. (Passed sent up for concurrence)
11.
C0185-08 Order/s/Councilor Lorrie Bruno, as President
To transfer the amount of $7,500 from the E-911 Salaries Account to the E-911 Office Supplies Account to purchase new dispatch chairs. (Passed sent up for concurrence)
12.
C0186-08 Order/s/Councilor Lorrie Bruno, as President
Theresa Shalsi shall be designated as a special municipal employee in accordance with M.G.L., Chapter 268A, Section 20 (b) for the purposes of elections conducted by the City for 2008. (Passed sent up for concurrence)
13.
C0187-08 Order/s/Councilor Lorrie Bruno, as President
Carolyn Lightburn shall be designated as a special municipal employee in accordance with M.G.L., Chapter 268A, Section 20 (b) for the purposes of elections conducted by the City for 2008. (Passed sent up for concurrence)
14.
C0176-08 Ordinance/s/Councilor Anthony F. Ranieri
To place a "No Heavy Trucking" sign on upper Clark Street, at the intersection of Main Street, at the request of the Traffic Commission. (Enrolled sent up for enrollment)
15.
C0188-08 Order/s/Councilor Millie J. Cardello and Alderman Wayne Matewsky
That the intersection of Wolcott Street and Second Street be dedicated and named the "Horace Rocco Square" for Mr. Rocco, a twenty-seven year Air Force Veteran, at the request of family members, with favorable Veteran Department approval. (Passed sent up for concurrence)
16.
C0175-08 Ordinance/s/Councilor Anthony F. Ranieri
To place stop sign on Norman Street, at the intersection of Williams Street, to curtain speeding and improve safety, at request of Traffic Commission. (Enrolled sent up for concurrence)
PETITIONS AND LICENSES
17.
A0251-08 Order
Petition for Lodging House License from Back Packers Hostel, 13 School Street.
18.
A0252-08 Petition
Petition for Lodging House License for 134 Linden Street Lodging.
19.
A0253-08 Petition
Petition for Second Hand License from Everett Thrift Shop, 366A Ferry Street.
20.
A0254-08 Petition
Petition for Second Hand License from Second Time Value, 800 Broadway.
21.
A0263-08 Petition
Petition for Awning permit at 134 Ferry Street.
COMMUNICATIONS
22.
A0185-08 Communication
Traffic Commission Report on Ordinance offered by Alderman Marcus-That Ordinance #26 of 1965, "An ordinance for no parking on the west side of Hall Ave" is hereby repealed; with a favorable recommendation for a 60 day trial period to be conducted. (Further time requested in the Traffic Commission while trial period is conducted from 5/27 to this meeting)
23.
A0186-08 Communication
Traffic Commission Report on Ordinance offered by Alderman Marcus-That Ordinance #46 of 1969, "An ordinance for no parking on the southeast side of Hall Ave" is hereby repealed. (Petition attached); with a recommendation to request further time in the Traffic Commission to conduct a 60 day trial period from 5/27 to this meeting)
24.
A0248-08 Communication
With regard to a name change and merger for Ferry Street Motors, Inc., 152 Ferry Street.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
25.
A0172-08 Petition
License Committee Report on Petition for Lodging House License from Caritas Communities D/B/A The Bill Moore House at 76 Norwood Street.
26.
A0221-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Jason Marcus
Law Department look into possibility of the City charging money for the rental of boxes placed on City of Everett sidewalks from the Boston Herald, Boston Globe, U.S. News, et cetera.
27.
A0222-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne Matewsky
DCR do the appropriate clean-up work in the sidewalk areas of Richie's Slush all the way down to the Stop and Shop on the Revere Beach Parkway for pedestrian safety, which also includes the removal of a metal post which had been previously requested to be removed.
NEW BUSINESS
28.
A0233-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That the City install safety posts in front of 66 Lynn Street, at the request of home owner, as cars crash into their property, in the interest of public safety for pedestrians and home owner.
29.
A0234-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
City paint a stop line on Fuller Street, at the intersection of Lynn Street, at Fuller Street Park, so people know where to stop, the residents want the stop line painted in front of the existing crosswalk.
30.
A0235-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That the Water Department resolve inflated water bill at residence of 14 Jackson Ave, and give report back to me at their earliest convenience due to resident's complaint of highly unusual water bill.
31.
A0236-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That the City Services Department take immediate action to fix the unsafe, dangerous sidewalk in front of 161 Jefferson Ave, at homeowners request. There are children here and needs to be fixed immediately.
32.
A0237-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That the City Services Department take necessary steps to fix the loose manhole cover in front of 187 Broadway, at the request of area residents.
33.
A0238-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That the Superintendent of Parks, Mr. Peter Pietrantonio, appear this meeting of the Board of Aldermen to explain why so many residents have dead trees in front of their homes, and why so many trees need to be trimmed or removed, as well as, bring a list of trees that need to be trimmed with him to this meeting.
34.
A0240-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That Mr. Joe Devito, Board of Health Inspector, appear this meeting of the Board of Aldermen relative to the large amount of rats being spotted around Paris, Lewis and Bailey Streets and what City is doing to prevent this issue.
35.
A0241-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Jason Marcus
That the City Engineering Department and Public Works Department put handicapped ramp on each side of Baker Road, at the intersection of Union Street.
36.
A0242-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That City Services Director and City Solicitor appear this meeting relative to an opinion on why private ways are not being maintained and repaired.
37.
A0243-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That the City Services-Park Division take necessary steps to clean out the "YO YO Giannelli Memorial" and the "Tentini Memorial" at the Everett Stadium, cut the grass and beautify the area.
38.
A0244-08 Order/s/Alderman L. Charles DiPerri
That the corner of Hawthorn and Main Streets be dedicated and named the “Joseph, John, Peter and Alfred Mavilio Square”.
39.
A0245-08 Ordinance/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
To place a stop sign on Second Street, in a westerly direction, opposite Lewis Street, heading towards Broadway.
40.
A0246-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
To alert senior citizens to beware of scam going around this City to defraud residents with a phony lottery.
41.
A0239-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Sal Sachetta
City Clerk and City Services Director appear to discuss the operation and logistics of Total Performance which is an "exercise or gymnastic business" on Victoria Street. Also Building Department respond on whether area is zoned for this type of business.
42.
A0247-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Wayne A. Matewsky
That the City Services Tree Department trim all trees on Lewis Street due to request of Parking Clerk Paul Kelly, that the branches are blocking signage.
43.
A0249-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
That in accordance with the provisions of the General Law of Massachusetts, the City Clerk be and is hereby authorized and directed to notify and warn the inhabitants of the City of Everett, qualified to vote as the law requires, to assemble at the several polling places, for and within the several precincts, where they are duly registered voters on TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 2008 for the STATE PRIMARY, then and there to give in their votes for the election of the candidates of political parties for the following offices:
SENATOR IN CONGRESS
REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS, 7th District
COUNCILLOR, 6th District
SENATOR IN GENERAL COURT, Middlesex, Suffolk & Essex District
REPRESENTATIVE IN GENERAL COURT, 28th Middlesex District
COUNCILLOR, 6th District
REGISTER OF PROBATE, Middlesex
44.
A0250-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
That the polls be opened from 7 o’clock in the morning to 8 o’clock in the evening and the City Clerk to cause all voting places to be properly fitted up for the STATE PRIMARY, TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 2008.
Ordered
Further: That the following places be designated as polling places for the above mentioned
STATE PRIMARY, SEPTEMBER 16, 2008:
Ward 1 Prec. 1 Armory, 90 Chelsea Street
Ward 1 Prec. 2 Armory, 90 Chelsea Street
Ward 1 Prec. 3 Sumner Whittier School, 337 Broadway
Ward 2 Prec. 1 Keverian School, 20 Nichols Street
Ward 2 Prec. 2 Parlin School, 587 Broadway, entrance on Derne Street
Ward 2 Prec. 3 Keverian School, 20 Nichols Street
Ward 3 Prec. 1 Community Center, 21 Whittier Drive
Ward 3 Prec. 2 Recreation Center Building, 47 Elm Street
Ward 3 Prec. 3 Recreation Center Building, 47 Elm Street
Ward 4 Prec. 1 Lafayette School, Edith Street, enter from Bryant Street
Ward 4 Prec. 2 Glendale Towers, Ferry Street
Ward 4 Prec. 3 Lafayette School, Edith Street, enter from Bryant Street
Ward 5 Prec. 1 English School, 105 Woodville Street
Ward 5 Prec. 2 City Hall, Keverian Room, Third Floor, 484 Broadway
Ward 5 Prec. 3 City Hall, Room 25, Second Floor, 484 Broadway
Ward 6 Prec. 1 English School, 105 Woodville Street
Ward 6 Prec. 2 Adams School, 78 Tileston Street, enter easterly side
Ward 6 Prec. 3 Adams School, 78 Tileston Street, enter westerly side
45.
A0255-08 Resolution/s/Alderman Sal Sachetta
Due to commentary in the Everett Leader Herald, dated August 12, 2008, I propose that the signage "Local Access Only" be removed at the ends of May and Kelvin Streets. There is no record of the authorization of these signs according to City Clerk's Office and they should not be allowed. If this were to be allowed many more citizens would install such signs to make their streets not accessible.
Adjournment
Respectfully submitted,
C. McCorry, Everett City Council Office
council@ci.everett.ma.us
www.You must be logged in to see this link. |
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arthur
Senior Member
212 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 3:40:22 PM
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A0262-08 Order/s/Alderman Robert J. Van Campen, as President
Subject to confirmation by the Honorable Board of Aldermen, and in accordance with Chapter 4, Article I, Section 14-2 of the Revised Ordinances of the City of Everett, I hereby reappoint Mr. Michael Vetrano as a Sergeant with the Everett Police Department.
He left and now is coming back I wish I could do that at my job. |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 09:17:23 AM
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1, 4, 5, 7 - I know that it's a picky point but these appointments are supposed to be done on a very specific schedule according to the city charter. (#1 dates back to February). The charter doesn't spell out what happens when these appointments aren't done when they are supposed to be, i.e., does the previous appointee continue to hold the position? I'd hate to see the decisions of some of these commissions and boards be legally challenged due to appointments not being kept up to date.
2 - For anyone playing along at home, the list of salaries is not actually found in the ordinance; the ordinance states that the list is actually kept in the city clerk's office. We've heard of this list before; I'd like to see the city clerk post a copy of it online. I doubt this means Mr. Hart will get a pay cut; this change appears to be more of a housekeeping issue.
9 - Although I don't disagree with this transfer, I hope that someone points out that the Stabilization Trust Fund Account is being used for it. I know; I sound like a broken record.
10 - Will anyone ask for a copy of the plan?.
11 - I'll pass on being a broken record on this one but I will be interested to see what, if any, questions are asked about this one..
41 - Hmm. I'm interested in seeing where this one may be going.
45 - Glad to see some swift action being taken on this. If the Leader-Herald's research is correct, these signs should have never been posted. Somebody might have some 'splain to do.
Face time rules! Glad to see that Alderman Matewsky could share at least a little of the agenda with the other members. Is he running for something? Could he be more obvious?
I stated in another thread last week that I was going to have a problem if the issue of Mr. Carlisle's temporary purchasing agent appointment wasn't addressed at this meeting. I guess I have an issue.
Speaking of issues, does anybody have any idea where the discontinuance of Fourth Street stands? I was expecting it to show up either last week meeting or this week's; wasn't sure if it need to go back to a particular board. What's the hold up? Seems like most things take forever lately. |
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Paul
Senior Member
158 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 8:08:57 PM
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This guy Zaniboni is making Wayne look like a genius.Where did Carlo find this guy ?
The City has ALWAYS repaired pot holes on Private Ways--ALWAYS.
The City may not be REQUIRED to do it but they always have in the past. |
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Tails
Administrator
2682 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 9:14:29 PM
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| I just caught the last hour of the meeting. Was it my TV or was everybody orange? |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 11:16:38 PM
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7) Congrats to Arthur for picking up on this. For anyone expecting a legal opinion on this one from me, sorry. Civil service law is too complex for me to delve into. I don't see what the harm would have been at least try to pursue this with the civil service board to see if they were willing to give an opinion on the matter. Let's hope that this doesn't come back to bite the city in the ass.
9) Thank you RVC for asking the question. If it was the intent of the administration to replenish the stabilization fund from free cash when it is certified (and I'm not saying it wasn't), why couldn't that information be included in the order? It would help yahoos like me to keep their mouths shut.
10) Again, include in the order that the plan has been distributed to the members and we have less to say. But then, again if the members don't look at what they receive from the administration, should we be happy with them?
14 + 16) Put up signs without a traffic commission report. Hmm. Sounds familiar. Some S'plain to do!
36) Can anyone explain to us what the benefits of living on a private way in an urban area are?
41) The way that this item was written up for the agenda didn't make its intent very clear. More than one business has direct access to this municipal parking lot. But the way that access to the lot was granted to this business just doesn't seem right.
45) How did Sherry Clancy manage to get these signs put up? Does anyone really buy that? Let's make that relationship worse than it already is. S'plain to do!
Congrats to RVC for reading the riot act to Wayne and the others that abuse the agenda for their own purposes. Wayne still managed to speak about most, if not all of his items, even though he was asked not to.
I guess I don't have an issue with Mr. Carlisle's appointment anymore. I have a feeling that I'll have a lot more to say about this situation when (if?) we learn more about it. I'm most concerned with how the city deals with ramifications of this going forward.
Tails, I thought that I noticed the color issue more when the camera that points out into the chamber was in use. It was especially noticeable when they were in split screen mode.
What was Stat doing sitting in the audience, at least early on? There was a school committee meeting tonight.
I turned on the meeting right at the end of Alderman Marcus' remarks so I didn't catch what happened to him. I tried to catch the replay at 11 but it didn't air. Can anybody fill us in? |
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arthur
Senior Member
212 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2008 : 06:55:25 AM
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tetris thank you for kind words if you are referring to me, how can I put this there are two people waiting to become sgt. they are next on the list. I do believe the mayor when he says ( the two) have no problem or were not going to file. But there is always a but, when is Carlo going to appt. them what deal did he make with the two officers to get sgt. vetrano back on the force? Like van campen said the chief didn't need a 14th sgt. but the people don't understand how sgt veteran left his job and it was stated last nite "he made a mistake, everyone makes mistakes" from the mayor. good luck everett he is a good sgt. it was just the way he left.
the private ways have been on the books for years I lived on a private way years back in everett and the city attorney was correct in saying they just plow, pick up trash, and that is it. It makes no sense you pay taxes and you can't get services but I believe its an old law that has been on the books and needs to be look at and adjusted. I can remember under the connolly adm. they tried but it was shot down in both bodies.
Jason is a one man show I missed his comments at the end but the beginning was enough for me. |
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Tails
Administrator
2682 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2008 : 10:09:55 AM
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45. Sherry Clancy did not put those signs up. I believe those signs were there before Best Buy, if they are the same ones. Someone had access and did a.....no-no.
I will admit those streets are MUCH smaller than the average street and cars do zip all over looking for the Best Buy entrance and trying to avoid the traffic on the Krystal Poirier Way. I just don't think signs that may have been illegal was the way to go. There are too many children in the area along with the Sacramone Park and it's not a good situation. |
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BOA 2008
