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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 08:46:23 AM
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Just wondering,
I really don't believe that it is necessary to provide a resume in order to be a poster on this board. I believe that the other posters and readers of this board should be able to judge us by what and how we post. However, in my case, I am willing to share the following.
I have never run for an elected office of any type. I have never held any type of government job. As I have stated many times on this board, I am not a lawyer. I have no particular agenda. I am not related to anyone that works for the city. I have one close friend whose parents both worked for the city but have long since retired. He also has a sister and a daughter that worked for the city; his sister still may, his daughter does not. A couple of my neighbors work or have worked for the city. One is someone who is closely identified with the previous administration; the other is a cafeteria worker in the school department. I do not (and have not) discussed city issues with them. I am aquainted with a handful of present and former city office holders; for the most part, that is due to the fact that I happen to be the same age as them. I do not consider any of them to be a friend.
What I am, as the name of this board implies, is an average citizen of the City of Everett. What does that mean in my particular case? I'm someone who has opinions and concerns that he is willing to share. I'm someone who is willing to listen to the opinions and concerns of all of the other posters on the board. I'm someone who tries, but is not always successful, to be respectful of the opinions and concerns of others. I'm someone who tries to offer cogent analysis of the things that he sees and reads. Am I always right? Of course not, who could be? And I'm usually very willing to admit when I am wrong. I'm someone who tries to be as fair as possible when evaluating the things that he sees or reads; but, I do have my biases and have readily shared them in the past. I'm someone who tries to help people out when they ask for help. I'm someone who tends to participate more when the discussion is more based in the known and will try to bow out or attempt to refocus it when it is more spectulative. I'm someone who hopes that what he posts on this board will at least be read and considered by those that frequent this board. Do I expect everyone to agree with everything that I post? Of course not, that is their right. |
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Tails
Administrator
2682 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2008 : 09:00:15 AM
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Tetris,
You have been so fair with everyone and helped me with tax rates, home values and so much more... I appreciate and thank you for your posts. I just wanted to publicly say that. |
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just wondering
Senior Member
387 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 10:30:35 AM
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Tetris...part of me thinks you are correct, we shouldnt have to provide a resume or qualify ourselves in anyway....but I also think it is important for people to read this forum to know where we are coming from with our opinions. I only provided information about myself(and asked for the same from others) because I was being labeled as a city employee and a member of the mayors staff. That simply isn't true. I find it interesting that when someone doesn't agree with the opinion of half dozen or so senior members here, they are imediately branded as an insider....as if the only way you could possibly have an opinion that differs from the senior members is if I am "one of them".
Also....regarding our qualifications as posters.....I think it is important for people to know how much weight to give a post when trying to decide what side of the fence they fall on. For example....an ex employee bitter over a job loss would carry less weight than an outsider making observations. |
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tetris
Moderator
2040 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 11:36:53 AM
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Just wondering,
I know that this isn't the way that it works but it is my belief that no one should come out to this or any board, read a few posts by anyone and decide if they find the poster to be credible or not. Until a particular poster develops a body of work that you can review and assess for yourself, there is really no way to tell how credible they are. A normally reliable poster can have a bad day and a questionable poster can probably manage a good day now and again too.
I don't believe that any of the regular posters to this board have a hidden axe to grind; the Mirror, that's another story (sorry folks). Those of us on this board that may have an axe to grind are usually pretty up front about it which, as you point out, is the way that it should be.
As far as being branded an insider, occasionally, your posts will contain information that most of the rest us were unaware of i.e., the mayor going out of town last month, the complete story of what happened when the veteran came into city hall with the flag, etc. Because of this, there is a general belief on the board (myself included) that if you are not a city employee you are, at least, you are someone with close ties to the mayor or his inner circle. Since you have chosen to keep the source of this information or how you happened to be in the right place at the right time to yourself (which is, of course, your right), I hope that you can see how people have made this assumption. There would still be violent disagreement between you and many posters even if this weren't the case, however. That's the way it should be too; everyone is entitled to their own opinion. |
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just wondering
Senior Member
387 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 1:12:48 PM
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| I understand what you are saying Tetris. Just to be clear...I am neither inner circle or an advisor. When I post here it is my opinion unless I am clearly stating a fact (such as the veteran you mentioned, were I happened to be picking up my parking sticker while he was in city hall). |
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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 3:20:04 PM
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Not that I think this is necessary, I have never worked for the City of Everett, any other city or the state. I have never been connected with any administration past or present.
Like Tetris, I have known people over the years that have worked for the city and have been in elected office. Very few of these people would I classify as a friend.
I do not have an agenda. I do have opinions. I am not always correct and am willing to admit it when I am not. I try to be respectful of others and their opinions. I do try to research most of what I post, not always, but most.
I feel this message board is a place to share our city with other residents, learn what is going on, and hopefully make informed decisions by hearing the many sides of different issues.
I am a lifelong resident of Everett and I care about our city. |
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Tails
Administrator
2682 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 3:27:51 PM
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Interesting news from today..
newburyportnews.com
Letter: Residents must take action to end nightmare at landfill
April 2, 2008
The telephone message transcripts from William Thibeault for Jack Morris make good, if disturbing, reading. The last one prior to the gas flare at the landfill being turned off is particularly chilling.
March 14, 2008: "Jack Morris. You don't get it do you? The more you keep (expletive deleted)ing around, and the more you keep trying to bust my (expletive deleted)s, the more I go the other way. So, you wanna play — I'll show you how to play, OK?"
The next day the flare was manually turned off, leaving nearby neighborhoods unprotected from the floods of toxic gasses that have been such a terrible burden in recent years.
Although Newburyport has not been particularly creative or effective in fighting the unsavory tactics that New Ventures routinely uses, at least it has worked diligently. Jack Morris' efforts and John Moak's support of those efforts are the brightest spots in this murky mess. The response from the state has been mixed and far less effective, even though they have far more potent tools at their disposal to control the unsavory tactics that New Ventures is using to exploit Newburyport.
The only way for this nightmare to end any time soon is if enough people show that they care enough about their neighbors and their city to do something. I have two suggestions:
E-mail your feelings to Richard Chalpin, Richard.Chalpin@state.ma.us, the authority within the DEP most directly responsible for resolving this mess. Also cc: to Ian Bowles, env.internet@state.ma.us, Matthew Ireland, Matthew.Ireland@ago.state.ma.us, Mike Costello, rep.michaelcostello@hou.state.ma.us, Steve Baddour, SBaddour@senate.state.ma.us, and John Moak, mayor@cityofnewburyport.com so that they can add their voices on your behalf.
Or write a letter to the editor. It is easy and politicians do follow them. And as has been clearly proven, political decision-makers for these issues haven't yet cared enough to undertake the actions that are clearly called for.
And finally, listen to or read the full text of the messages from William Thibeault to Jack Morris at You must be logged in to see this link. They will give you a much better understanding of the nemesis that Newburyport faces.
But above all else, let your feelings be known. Your neighbors are depending on you.
JIM STILES
Newburyport |
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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 3:43:17 PM
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| Those messages to Mr Morris from Mr Thibeault are very disturbing. It also shows us just what kind of person Mr Thibeault is. I can't believe Mayor DeMaria would even be willing to work with this person. Those tapes are disgusting, truly disgusting. |
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massdee
Moderator
5299 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 4:22:09 PM
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I recently received the following, and I think it pretty much says it all.
What interests me specifically in this August 2006 article from Boston.com is the tactic used by New Ventures versus state oversight and compliance regarding the Newburyport facility.
To wit, there is the paragraph that details how New Ventures entered into an agreement to cap the Newburyport landfill: "The debris New Ventures shipped in contained sheetrock, which is made up almost entirely of paper and gypsum. When mixed with rain and allowed to rot, those ingredients produce the hydrogen sulfide gas that is sparking complaints from dozens of neighbors."
The same power move is taking place in Everett. The second noteworthy passage talks about the area of agreement between the state EPA and New Ventures. They both agree that state intervention is the last thing either party wants. As written: ``But if the government takes it over, it will be many times the cost it would be for a private party to do it. That's why the government isn't responding to the political pressure to take it over. If they take it over, they will be facing the same problems we're facing today."
However, you can see that the residents are clearly begging for relief and this call for action that just resulted in state intervention began at least as far back as two years ago, actually quite a bit more.
Any personal or corrupt motives of politicians and business owners aside, this still leaves the fact that the state and of course, it's entities (EPA etc) follow suit, leaving affected residents largely to their own devices until such time as the state regulator's collective backs are against the door, then they step in only to minimize further liability borne by the state.
It is also interesting to note as I read in a previous article that New Ventures is now making the claim that it was the Newburyport itself that is responsible for the contamination and as such, is responsible for the remediation costs of cleaning it up.
Put another way, New Ventures enters into an agreement with the town to handle its' landfill and turns around and threatens to sue the town for what they knew they were getting in the first place. It's a pretty coy scam if you ask me. It is interesting that New Ventures takes the position that it is the very people (residents and town of Newburyport) charging them with non compliance that New Ventures, in part, claims is responsible for the original contamination having operated it is a dump for years previous. Am I to believe that New Ventures didn't know that going into the deal?
In the end what you seem to have, at least in Newburyport and coming soon to a theater near you in Everett is the same situation. It will be the residents standing mano-y-mano against New Ventures with no zealous backing from the state. That is exactly what has happened in Newburyport.
This leads me to believe that if your Mayor is indeed planning on helping New Ventures move forward the only way it might be prevented or regulated to the residents satisfaction is through the courts.
I'm not a legal scholar by any means, but it seems to me that the only quick protection is in a class action lawsuit, first seeking an injunction to prevent any further dealings until the facts are made public.
In fact, it is my layman's opinion that you may be dealing with the charge that the Mayor and council members are in violation of open meeting laws himself by advancing this environmentally and emotionally charged issue that could affect the lives of many people and doing so behind closed doors. If you don't think conversation is taking place among your elected officials in private, I'm prepared to sell you one of those water fron Everett Condos and I'll even throw in the Water Taxi fare for free.
You all need to get this stopped and quick before a deal is inked. Once the initial approval goes forward, you will never stop him. It is in the best interest of the Mayor to keep this issue silent until such time as he can claim to reneg will only cost the city hundred of thousand of dollars in litigation. In other words, the residents will get the "it's too late to stop it" excuse, which is why everyone, including your councilors are remaining silent.
In fact, I am not quite sure how it is your executive and legislative branches are allowing this huge pink elephant to remain in the room without even acknowledging its' presence to the residents. The residents have rights, open meeting rights, and an issue of this magnitude should be completely discussed in open forum.
After reading this, my worry, my immense worry, is that the state will only involve itself with Everett's situation to the bare extent necessary. Given that it seems to be that you have no local or state advocacy by way of political and government force, then your only recourse is through a citizen action group. On that note, I might suggest you seek out and ask assistance from one of the larger known environmental advocacy non profits. They love to sink their teeth into fighting big business and big government.
In short it would be a mistake to think any of your political leadership has your best interest and future health concerns of forthcoming generations in mind on this matter. I am sure they will wish to dodge this at all costs. This translates to the foregone conclusion that should you let them even set a corner stone on opening business you will never get them to comply with EPA and OSHA requirements nor will you be able to shut them down for violation without a court battle extending over years, not months.
I submit to you the only recourse is citizen action. You need to organize, in person and in public. Debate under screen names and anonymous does nothing more than inform a few otherwise less than enlightened citizens, but not much more. I suggest at minimum, you post an online downloadable letter, complete with addresses of elected officials, and provide the option for people to print them out, fill in their names (politicians won't respond unless you give them that info) and demand an open meeting on this whole issue.
Otherwise, you may soon be at the ballot box holding your nose, but it appears you'll be doing that anyway. I don't know about you, but I won't be surprised when I see a six figure consulting deal between New Ventures and your current Mayor when the Mayor rejoins private industry. The salary alone could be negated by interest gained on escrow accounts being deposited for bonding purposes or some similar type of account. New Ventures had to put up $3M for Newburyport.
From a business standpoint, it is an investment for Mr. Thibeault. Use the Mayor to get his deal in place then hire him as a six figure consultant. Thibeault would just consider that salary as a business expense necessary to make seven figures in the long run.
If, as rampant speculation holds, that the Mayor did accept hefty amounts of financial backing from Thibeault, then they owned him from the beginning whether he saw this coming or not. He can either play ball with them and have one of two things happen: 1. He gets reelected and the private industry deal still awaits him or 2. He gets dumped after the first election and gets his private industry deal (consulting) a few year sooner. Or he can have what is behind curtain number three - he can disagree with Thibeault, suffer in November 09 (and as we have seen, Thibeault has the time and money to buy elections) and walk away with his gold watch, thank you card and return to the land of the honey dip donut. I'm betting your Mayor already sold his soul, and although most likely regretting it now, sees the bleak handwriting on the dark cold wall - "play ball or suffer the consequences."
You're not going to be able to "unring" the bell. Do not wait for your politicians to get involved - organize, take this into your own hands, and keep a detailed record, you're going to need it.
Good Luck.
And now the article:
State is asked to close dump
By Tim Wacker, Globe Correspondent | August 10, 2006
Cloudless skies, temperatures in the 80s, and low humidity usually mean a beautiful day, but William Woodbury had to check the hydrogen sulfide meter outside his Charmanski Drive home last weekend to be sure.
``It all depends on which way the wind is blowing," he said. ``If the wind's blowing from the northwest, it smells like rotten eggs."
That smell comes from the former city dump, Crow Lane, which adds a new dimension to weather forecasts these days for a few hundred homes within a half-mile radius. The dump and the hydrogen sulfide gas it emits have pitted Everett-based building debris disposal company New Ventures LLC against neighbors and government officials incensed about the lack of progress on the firm's plan to cap the landfill.
Last week those officials called on the state Department of Environmental Protection to take over the project.
``It's been extremely frustrating for us," said Newburyport Mayor John Moak . ``We haven't had the ability to get anything done on this except to stop them from bringing in any more material. As much as I wanted New Ventures to get this done themselves, we need to get the air quality up to standards."
The call for state help came after preliminary tests results last week showed hydrogen sulfide gas had reached unhealthy levels, according to federal guidelines. So, Moak, state Representative Michael Costello, and state Senator Steven Baddour signed a letter asking the DEP to take over closing and capping the facility.
But comments this week by the DEP and Attorney General Thomas Reilly's office, which filed suit against New Ventures in February, suggest some state reluctance to take over a problem with costly solutions.
``We've been working with the attorney general's office, pressing for additional action, and we hope that New Ventures will be cooperative and take further actions now," DEP spokesman Joe Ferson said. ``We recognize that this has been an ongoing and difficult project for a number of years."
When New Ventures owner William Thibeault took over the city-run landfill in 2000, it was with the understanding that he'd cap the 60-foot mountain of garbage with a mix of dirt and construction debris specifically permitted under state law for such purposes.
The debris New Ventures shipped in contained sheetrock, which is made up almost entirely of paper and gypsum. When mixed with rain and allowed to rot, those ingredients produce the hydrogen sulfide gas that is sparking complaints from dozens of neighbors.
They have organized themselves on the Internet and every day exchange e-mails over how much the gas bothered them the night before, at what time, and for how long. The e-mails have grown into a two-year log of complaints that are dumped daily into city, state, and New Venture computers as state and local officials have tried to get a better handle on the severity of the problem.
``It's almost a daily occurrence," Woodbury said of the smell. ``It starts at about 3 in the morning and by 7 a.m. it can be gone. It's worst just after it rains. The stuff starts to stink and then it all depends on which way the wind is blowing."
As those complaints piled up, so has government pressure on New Ventures. In December the city ordered New Ventures to stop shipping in the construction debris.
In February, Reilly's office filed suit, threatening New Ventures with millions in fines if the company didn't get rid of the odors and clean up foul water leaching from the landfill into surrounding wetlands. New Ventures has since installed filters to remove the foul-smelling sulfur from the gas, and Reilly's office is waiting to see how well they work.
``If it doesn't work, we'll ask the courts to take further action," said Jim Milkey , chief of environmental protection at Reilly's office. ``We will certainly pursue all options to make sure these problems are solved, but it's our preference that private parties fund the solution to this."
New Ventures is also opposed to a state takeover, said company attorney Chip Nylen. Such a takeover likely means the company would lose a $3 million performance bond New Ventures put up to guarantee the work it promised to do when it signed the deal with the city five years ago.
``We've already spent six figures on this project and we'll be into seven by the time it's through," Nylen said. ``But if the government takes it over, it will be many times the cost it would be for a private party to do it. That's why the government isn't responding to the political pressure to take it over. If they take it over, they will be facing the same problems we're facing today."
Costello is convinced that New Ventures has deliberately delayed the project. Before the city ordered New Ventures to stop the capping project, trucks had been hauling debris in daily for two years.
With construction debris disposal costs reaching upwards of $150 per ton, the capping project was a moneymaker for New Ventures as long as the trucks kept rolling, Costello said.
``They're making a ton of money . . . they want to dump as much in that landfill as possible," he said. ``If Thibeault had been up front from the beginning and closed that landfill, we wouldn't have this problem."
The dump was supposed to close in October, according to the deal that allowed New Ventures to take over the property from the city. Nylen says that's not likely to happen now since the city halted the capping project in December.
Residents already resigned to what will likely be many more months watching which way the wind blows are mostly in favor of a state takeover. They feel greater public involvement will mean more public oversight in a big problem they've been living with for years.
``There has been no oversight of New Ventures, and you have to watch these guys 24 hours a day," said Wildwood Drive resident Ron Klodenski . ``The scrutiny is not as critical if the state is doing the work. We've been watching these guys since this project was first under discussion. We were just thought to be the nervous neighbors back then, . . . but it's turned out to be worse than even our most pessimistic thoughts."
© Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
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just wondering
Senior Member
387 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 4:30:09 PM
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| Massdee.....do you go to city hall, the mayors office or boa meetings to voice your concerns or do you just hide behind this forum and recycle the same articles that have been posted over and over? |
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Fedup
Member
86 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 5:49:22 PM
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If someone is trying to scare the daylights out of me, trust me, it is working. I am grateful for posters like Tetris and Massdee, to name a few, for educating us on these issues. Would it be possible to have someone from this forum download a letter as suggested above, that we could all forward to anyone who can help us at the state level? Is it possible for us to either put together our own committee to fight the landfill and/or to join with Newburyport and stop Thibeault? I personally am not afraid to get involved for the betterment of Everett and there are a lot of other residents out there who do not read the forum who would likely become involved. I do not feel qualified enough to lead a group of this type, however, I am not afraid to stand up and be counted.
I still find it hard to believe that the Mayor would do anything that would intentionally hurt Everett. I believe Carlo is really trying in many areas to bring the City back on its' feet although this does not speak well for him. Perhaps he is in over his head. Perhaps we are speculating too much. Whatever the case, we as residents have the right to total honesty from City Government and if we are not getting it, we must do something about it. Voting them out will be too late.
On another note, I have not seen any recent posts from Citizen Kane and Court4Fred. They always posted very intelligently about issues. I wonder what their take is on Thibeault.
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deleted
136 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 6:00:57 PM
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You need to listen to the messages to understand the real "Billy Thibeault" however, WARNING....foul, vulgar language to the health inspector. Dont have children around. I am appalled the administration is even dealing with vulgar man.
You must be logged in to see this link.
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justme
Advanced Member
1428 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 7:33:53 PM
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I just read the transcript of Mr Thebault's' calls. What can I say? This thing just gets worse and worse. There's just no way anyone can defend the man or his business practices. I'm sick at the thought that Carlo would even consider doing business with him yet we know he is. I guess that's okay for him................. He can move when he's not re-elected, not all of us can. (Although I imagine he'd have a hard time selling the Taj Mahal!)
Okay, although I hadn't intended to respond to just wondering, I'll join massdee and tetris and provide some personal information. I work in bank operations and have for the past 30 years. I don't work for the city and never have. I do have friends working at city hall. They have been there since John McCarthy was in office. John McCarthy is also the only mayor, or mayoral candidate, I ever actively supported.
I don't have an agenda. I do have opinions and concerns. I always intend to be respectful of other posters but I'm frequently unsuccessful.......... Probably because I have no patience with rude, arrogant, condescending posters like just wondering. My lack of patience is also why I try not to get involved in the more serious discussions. I have a stressful job and high blood pressure. I don't need any more stress or aggravation!
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just wondering
Senior Member
387 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 10:28:19 AM
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Along with your lack of patience, you also have a short attention span. You asked me questions expecting me to run from them....when I answered them, you didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge it or debate my answers. Not sure why all of you are afraid to atleast admit that my reasoning is sound......you may not agree that it is worth the risk, but that risk assesment is completely seperate from listing the pro's and cons.
My thoughts on dealing with Thiebault are simple......plan appropriately. Everett is in a great position here.....we can learn how from other towns how to craft ordinances and permit regualtions to prevent the Thiebaults of the world from taking advantage of us. I think these other cities failed miserably from the start and are in the positions they are in now because they failed plan appropriately.
Nobody can argue that there are huge differences between a dump and transfer station. The challenges being faced by Newburyport are much different than ours. The federal regulations having to do with landfills are much different (rightfully so) than they are for a transfer station. Enclosing his facility (either on Boston Ave or elsewhere) addresses the concerns of our city. It may not relieve some of us of the animosity we have towards the man, but it definitely addresses the concerns of our city.
And finally justme....my calling a few of you out for some background information was the result of you questioning where I work....please step down from your high horse.
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justme
Advanced Member
1428 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 7:47:51 PM
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Your belief that your reasoning is sound is all well and good just wondering however; it’s your belief, not mine. I believe we need to do anything we can to avoid giving in to this man. He hasn’t done the right thing up to now and I believe allowing him to relocate and expand his business will not be in our best interest. The only one to gain anything will be Mr Thibeault.
Although you certainly have a right to express your opinion, I don’t believe you have the right to be rude and condescending to those who disagree with you. You’ve been both, on numerous occasions………………. maybe it’s you that should get off that high horse.
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Stop the Waste
